bryco-jennings-jimenezarms.com

[ByteMe72]

Well, it's high time SOMEBODY put up some data for this little bugger. What's a gun forum without chrono data? The following posts will contain the data and some comments for each of four loads. Down the road I could do some more and add to the thread.

Please take this stuff for what it's worth. This is the performance of these particular lots in my particular gun; your mileage may vary (and probably will). My only hope is to put out some data points to hang discussion on.

The gun involved is an HP-22A in blued finish. I have both the 3 inch and the 5 inch barrel, and have chrono data for both lengths. At this point I'm up to about 1200 rounds total on the frame, and so far no cracks or other problems to report. With the exception of the high velocity ammo I fired to obtain data for this series of write-ups, I have fired only standard velocity ammo through her.

Addendum: I thought that I would point out that I have not modified the rear sight in any way. It sits exactly as the factory set it up. As you all know, the front sight is not adjustable. When I mention POA (point of aim) and POI (point of impact) bear in mind my sights are out-of-the-box stock.

The chono is a Chrony model F-1. Basic, but gets the job done. I love this thing, BTW, and seem to take it out with me to every shooting session nowadays. Best $100 I ever spent (aside from the Phoenix, of course!).

The data presented is a representative sample of what I obtained. In other words, I shot several 10-shot strings and picked one that was "middle of the road" for that given load in that given barrel length. Some ammo will vary wildly (see the Remington Target write-up) but most holds to a basic pattern pretty closely.

Enjoy!

[ByteMe72]

Winchester Dynapoint
Standard Velocity 22 Long Rifle
40 gr copper plated round nose

Phoenix HP-22A (3 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 75 F
1 – 828.3 fps
2 – 852.8 fps
3 – 847.0 fps
4 – 838.8 fps
5 – 861.0 fps
6 – 875.7 fps
7 – 862.3 fps
8 – 895.3 fps
9 – 856.9 fps
10 – 846.7 fps
High 895.3 fps
Low 828.3 fps
Avg 856.5 fps

SD 18.96 fps
ES 67 fps
Energy 65.17 ft. lbs.

Phoenix HP-22A (5 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 60 F
1 – 935.0 fps
2 – 970.8 fps
3 – 931.6 fps
4 – 930.5 fps
5 – 953.4 fps
6 – 944.9 fps
7 – 963.9 fps
8 – 963.0 fps
9 – 951.6 fps
10 – 924.8 fps
High 970.8 fps
Low 924.8 fps
Avg 947.0 fps

SD 16.06 fps
ES 46 fps
Energy 79.67 ft. lbs.

The Winchester Dynapoints are my favorite for the Phoenix due to their tight grouping and consistency. I typically get groups of about 2.5 to 3 inches at POA (Point of Aim) from the three inch barrel, and slightly larger groups at POA from the 5 inch barrel. The Dynapoints turn in velocities in the mid 800’s in the three inch barrel, which is about what I expected. You gain about 100 fps by swapping out to the five inch barrel. Of further note, this is the only Standard Velocity .22 LR ammo that I know of that is copper plated. Everything else seems to be lead only in SV.

[ByteMe72]

Remington 22 Target
Standard Velocity 22 Long Rifle
40 gr lead round nose

Phoenix HP-22A (3 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 75 F
1 – 792.0 fps
2 – 870.3 fps
3 – 845.1 fps
4 – 900.6 fps
5 – 851.4 fps
6 – 819.1 fps
7 – 882.7 fps
8 – 822.5 fps
9 – 863.2 fps
10 – 815.8 fps
High 900.6 fps
Low 792.0 fps
Avg 846.3 fps

SD 33.91 fps
ES 108.6 fps
Energy 63.63 ft. lbs.

Phoenix HP-22A (5 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 60 F
1 – 946.5 fps
2 – 988.1 fps
3 – 924.8 fps
4 – 923.4 fps
5 – 932.0 fps
6 – 978.8 fps
7 – 902.4 fps
8 – 953.2 fps
9 – 876.7 fps
10 – 913.1 fps
High 988.1 fps
Low 876.7 fps
Avg 933.9 fps

SD 33.96 fps
ES 111.4 fps
Energy 77.48 ft. lbs.

The Remington 22 Target showed some absolutely wild variation from shot to shot, and had easily the largest spread in velocities of the four rounds tested. Surprisingly, it groups relatively well (close second to the Winchester Dynapoints in my gun). It's POI (Point of Impact) is right on POA (Point of Aim) and I get 2.5 to 3 inch groups out of the three inch barrel. I haven't shot a whole lot out of the five inch barrel, but off-hand it seems to group a bit bigger in the five inch barrel. Because of it's higher cost, I don’t shoot this much and prefer to keep it as a backup in case I can’t get Dynapoints. This Remington turns in low to mid 800’s in the three inch barrel, again picking up about 100 fps when the five inch barrel is used.

[ByteMe72]

CCI Mini-Mag
High Velocity 22 Long Rifle
40 gr copper plated round nose

Phoenix HP-22A (3 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 70 F
1 – 908.8 fps
2 – 898.3 fps
3 – 942.3 fps
4 – 941.8 fps
5 – 936.1 fps
6 – 955.8 fps
7 – 928.9 fps
8 – 934.3 fps
9 – 914.7 fps
10 – 934.9 fps
High 955.8 fps
Low 898.3 fps
Avg 929.6 fps

SD 17.4 fps
ES 57.5 fps
Energy 76.77 ft. lbs.

Phoenix HP-22A (5 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 70 F
1 – 1015 fps
2 – 1058 fps
3 – 1026 fps
4 – 1060 fps
5 – 1055 fps
6 – 1017 fps
7 – 1068 fps
8 – 1045 fps
9 – 1034 fps
10 – 1077 fps
High 1077 fps
Low 1015 fps
Avg 1045.5 fps

SD 21.63 fps
ES 62 fps
Energy 97.11 ft. lbs.

[ByteMe72]

Federal Value Pack (Wal-Mart)
High Velocity 22 Long Rifle
36 gr copper plated hollow point

Phoenix HP-22A (3 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 70 F
1 – 904.3 fps
2 – 893.0 fps
3 – 944.5 fps
4 – 926.4 fps
5 – 918.2 fps
6 – 875.2 fps
7 – 896.0 fps
8 – 907.1 fps
9 – 899.7 fps
10 – 908.2 fps
High 944.5 fps
Low 875.2 fps
Avg 907.3 fps

SD 19.14 fps
ES 69.3 fps
Energy 65.81 ft. lbs.

Phoenix HP-22A (5 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 70 F
1 – 994.0 fps
2 – 1034 fps
3 – 1052 fps
4 – 1046 fps
5 – 1047 fps
6 – 1037 fps
7 – 1041 fps
8 – 1071 fps
9 – 1043 fps
10 – 1038 fps
High 1071 fps
Low 994.0 fps
Avg 1040.3 fps

SD 19.33 fps
ES 77 fps
Energy 85.93 ft. lbs.

[ByteMe72]

Analysis:

I'm moving to a slightly different format, where I keep the analysis of each round together with it's data. Initially I was going to do only a few rounds, but I've gotten more ambitious and plan to do a lot more chrono data. Keeping analysis together with it's data will be easier all around. Please stand by while I make some edits to the posts and rearrange stuff.

DISCLAIMER: Phoenix recommends against using high velocity ammo in the HP-22A pistol. That said, I know a lot of guys use HV ammo with no problems. I normally stay away from HV ammo, but ran a few rounds through just to collect chrono data. As such, I wasn’t really shooting for groups and didn’t really get any clear impression as to the accuracy of either the Mini-Mags or the Federal Value Pack. They both seemed about the same to me, and not better than the Winchester Dynapoints above.

The CCI Mini-Mags were easily the speed (and energy) champs (edit: this applies only to the comparison between the CCI Mini-Mags and the Federal Value Pack) in their respective barrel lengths. The three inch barrel sees low 900’s while the five inch barrel turns out just shy of 1050 fps. Pretty impressive for a SNS. The 97 ft.lbs. of energy produced out the five inch barrel is nothing to sneeze at.

The Federal Value Pack from Wal-Mart were a little disappointing to me. I was expecting better velocity figures due to the lower bullet weight (36 gr versus 40 gr for all the others). However, the velocities (and energies) were slightly lower than those of the CCI Mini-Mags. Go figure.

[FergusonTO35]

Good job Byte. I have been doing the same tests with my JA-22. Your data and mine indicates that minor differences in barrel length can dramatically change the ballistics of a round. The .8" difference in barrel length between the HP-22 and the JA-22 caused the 40 grain Mini Mag in your test to outperform the 36 grain bullet in my test.
_________________
If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man but deteriorate the cat. -Mark Twain

[356]

Byte, thanks for posting this great information. I hate to ask, but could you run data on CCI Stingers? I used these in my JA22 and could really feed (and hear) the different between standard velocity (CCI and Remington's), high velocity (CCI mini-mags and Fed. HV) and hyper velocity (CCI Stingers). Although I could easily distinguish between these three, the most noticeable tactile difference was obtained using the Stingers.

Again, thanks for posting this information. Your next "best" $100 would be on a JA22, of course!
_________________
The JA22 saga ended at 14,068 rounds on 11/19/09 RIP
Member--Floral Slide J22 Owners Group

[martin08]

Bravo! Excellent testing and info.

I chronographed some various .22lr rounds from my JA-22 last spring and came to the same conclusion. The CCI mini-mags had about 12 more FPE than standard velocity rounds through the 2.5" barrel.

Thanks Byte!
_________________
Maine. Where the Moose is King of the Road (by default).

[jackstinson]

BTW- I added a link to this data thread in the BALLISTICS section of GUN TECH.
There are several good tests linked from there. As I recall, Steve's Pages' testing of various .22LR cartridges included data from an HP-22. Sorry, I can't verify that at the moment, my company blocks access to those pages.
_________________
Jack

"The right tools at the right price to get the job done." Jim Davis

[ByteMe72]

Thank you for all the comments and support. I can't believe I get my own sticky!

I will try to get a hold of some CCI Stingers and run them through. I'll post that info when I get it. I'll probably do a few other assorted brands/types while I'm at it (some Blazers, PMC, etc.). If there are any other "special requests" go ahead and post (or better still, PM me) and I'll do what I can.

[farmkid]

[ByteMe72]

CCI Stinger
Hyper Velocity 22 Long Rifle
32 gr copper plated hollow point

Phoenix HP-22A (3 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 95 F
1 – 1120 fps
2 – 1118 fps
3 – 1122 fps
4 – 1097 fps
5 – 1120 fps
6 – 1154 fps
7 – 1123 fps
8 – 1139 fps
9 – 1137 fps
10 – 1130 fps
High 1154 fps
Low 1097 fps
Avg 1126 fps

SD 15.25 fps
ES 57 fps
Energy 90.11 ft. lbs.

Phoenix HP-22A (5 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 95 F
1 – 1264 fps
2 – 1299 fps
3 – 1296 fps
4 – 1278 fps
5 – 1275 fps
6 – 1299 fps
7 – 1316 fps
8 – 1328 fps
9 – 1282 fps
10 – 1274 fps
High 1328 fps
Low 1264 fps
Avg 1291.1 fps

SD 20.20 fps
ES 64 fps
Energy 118.47 ft. lbs.

I can only say one word about the Stingers: WOW! I mean, just freakin’ WOW! The report was loud, there was some amazing kick, and some incredible velocities posted (especially from the five inch barrel). The POI (point of impact) was consistently about an inch high and right of POA (point of aim), but the groupings were pretty good: about 2.5” to 3.0”.

However, there is some bad news: I checked the magazine well area after each set of shots and found a crack on the left side magazine well area after finishing the strings I needed for the above data. I’ll get into more detail on this in a separate analysis.

For the purposes of this particular test, the Stingers really delivered (boy howdy!). I would DEFINITELY NOT use these on any kind of regular basis, but if all I had was a Phoenix and really, REALLY needed to pack, I wouldn’t hesitate to stuff the magazine with Stingers. They deliver energies you’d normally only see out of a .22 rifle, and are quite consistent. Accuracy is reasonable, and the sights could easily be adjusted to make POI match POA.

[ByteMe72]

CCI Standard Velocity
Standard Velocity 22 Long Rifle
40 gr lead round nose

Phoenix HP-22A (3 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 95 F
1 – 851.4 fps
2 – 882.2 fps
3 – 867.6 fps
4 – 889.6 fps
5 – 870.0 fps
6 – 870.0 fps
7 – 870.2 fps
8 – 873.1 fps
9 – 879.0 fps
10 – 879.3 fps
High 889.6 fps
Low 851.4 fps
Avg 873.2 fps

SD 10.31 fps
ES 38.2 fps
Energy 67.75 ft. lbs.

Phoenix HP-22A (5 in barrel)
Chrono 15’ from muzzle
Temp: 95 F
1 – 958.8 fps
2 – 972.0 fps
3 – 978.4 fps
4 – 936.4 fps
5 – 952.4 fps
6 – 987.1 fps
7 – 955.1 fps
8 – 926.4 fps
9 – 983.2 fps
10 – 995.3 fps
High 995.3 fps
Low 926.4 fps
Avg 964.5 fps

SD 22.53 fps
ES 68.9 fps
Energy 82.65 ft. lbs.

The CCI Standard Velocity shows just how variable parameters can be from manufacturer to manufacturer. If you compare these numbers to the Federal Value Pack’s numbers (bearing in mind that those are rated as High Velocity rounds) then you can see that one man’s Standard Velocity can be pretty close to another man’s High Velocity. I found the CCI Standard Velocity to be very consistent in both barrels, with a nice firm kick with each shot. They shot about 1.5 inches high and right in the three inch barrel, with groups around 3 inches or so. They grouped right to POA (point of aim) in the five inch barrel, with roughly 2.5 inch groups. Not too shabby, and also quite consistent (this seems to be a characteristic of CCI ammo). I like these pretty well, and if I decided to use them a lot in the three inch barrel I would just adjust the sights so that POI=POA.

[ByteMe72]

Magazine well crack analysis: I’ve always considered it inevitable that I would eventually develop cracks in the magazine well area of my Phoenix HP-22A. It seems to be a well-documented design flaw, and references can be found elsewhere on this site. I put approximately 1100 to 1200 rounds of Standard Velocity ammunition through this HP-22A before trying high and hyper velocity ammunition. I fired approximately 80 rounds of two kinds of High Velocity ammo for data (see my write-ups on the CCI Mini Mags and Federal Value Pack further back in this thread). Then I got to the Stingers.

I fired about twenty rounds of CCI Stingers through the three inch barrel to gather that data, then swapped barrels. At that time I thoroughly examined the magazine well area for cracks and was pleased to find none. Then I fired about another twenty rounds of CCI Stingers in the five inch barrel. I paused to strip the HP-22A for examination, and found a clearly evident crack in the left side magazine well area. There are currently no cracks on the right side.

A question was asked a while back about how much High Velocity ammo could be fired through the HP-22A before getting cracks. It would seem to depend a bit on the barrel length and on how hot a High Velocity load it is. I obviously accelerated things with the Stingers. The five inch barrel probably had a lot to do with it too, since the higher velocities produced in the five inch barrel also mean much higher stress on the frame.

If you use the milder HV loads out there (the Federal Value Pack comes to mind) and use them exclusively in the three inch barrel, you’ll probably go a long time without problems. If you use the hotter loads in the five inch barrel, I’ll bet you’ll have the same results I did.